(;FF[4]GM[1]SZ[19]AP[SGFC:1.13b]

GN[bconwil-pcuoq(B) NNGS]
EV[None]
PB[pcuoq]
BR[20k*]
HA[8]
PW[bconwil]
WR[12k*]
KM[0.5]
DT[2000-04-24]
PC[NNGS Worldwide: nngs.cosmic.org 9696]
RE[B+20.5]
TM[1200]
US[Brought to you by No Name Go Server]

AB[pd][dp][dd][pp][pj][jp][jd][dj]C[bconwil: I am a 12k on NNGS.   I played white in this game and lost pretty convincingly.  I have a hard time when I am  giving a large handicap.  I would appreciate any help you could give me on methods to playing this type of game.

Stephenson: I was asked to comment on Damien's comments via an email from the GTL (go teaching ladder). Keep in mind, only a high ranking professioinal can know the truth about go. My humble opinions are merely more randomly sophisticated than a weaker but fellow amateur. (I make a further comment below about handicap play.)
- John C. Stephenson AGA 4D June 9th, 2000.

Damien comments: the general approach should be to be patient and wait
for black to make mistakes.  Of course, you should try to help this along by
looking for complications that, being stronger, you should be able to handle
better, but patience is the key.

Naturally a solid grasp of life and death and star-point joseki are useful  (look at double approach moves in particular), but even more I would advise
you to concentrate on making light and resilient structures so that you can't
be attacked too easily.   Black has thick positions everywhere with the handicap stones: you need to make
these heavy and inefficient.  Trying to go all out for power early on will only
encourage black to tighten up the board.

Most of my comments will be directed to white: I'll try to stay on principles
rather than be too specific.

This is my first game commentary: I'd appreciate any feedback to    dmw@pobox.com

Stephenson: as far as my opinion on what you say about w playing H games goes, w cannot afford to wait for b to make mistakes, but must induce b to make mistakes. I agree complications favor w, but the key is w must play faster (type of moves, not time on the clock) than normal, which means several overplays during the game. Of course w exercises patience where failure to make a defense would be obvious to b. But w's style must be fast even if it leaves behind serious weaknesses; presumably, due to the difference in playing strength, black is not capable of exploiting any but the most obvious weaknesses. Therefore, w's overplays usually become good plays and in the process w both intimidates b and catches up to b. Psychology is a big factor in go, and pointed in H games. W has to predict and win through b's ignorance. Lee Chang Ho, 9-dan pro, is famous for allowing his opponent to play how his opponent wants, but still not falling behind because of his precision and patience. That's fine for 9-dans playing even games against other 9-dans, not fine for amateurs giving a handicap. W must never let b do what b wants, which, in a high handicap game, b wants to exist without fear and trepidation. W must make b more afraid than b even thought he was. Sorry, but go is not something for the squeamish. (Of course, if winning is not your objective, and it need not be -- it almost always is not mine -- the above approach changes radically.)]
;W[nq];B[oq];W[np];B[pn]
(;W[or]SQ[np][nq]C[this is a strange move: white becomes heavy, while black's response
removes a lot of the corner potential.  This should be saved until you
either need the eye space or have decided you no longer want to invade
the corner... it's really an end-game move.
(See variation for more usual joseki)

Stephenson: p2 is not a proper move because it ereases potential, as you say. However, w is already heavy. That was the meaning when b played an attachment at p3. (Although usually b plays that kind of move trying to protect the corner, and likely does not understand the concept of light and heavy). The h stone present at k4 makes the attachment of p3 effective.]
;B[pr];W[pl]TR[np][nq][or]LB[nn:A]C[white should still be looking at extending along the bottom:
this group could come under strong attack.  a black move at
o6 (A) would attack both groups at once.

Stephenson: when commenting  I suggest you give actual coordinates when possible, such as here when you say to extend on the bottom, where do you mean? My advice to w is play very fast. Q8 is fast. Also G4 is fast. Of course they're overplays. But it's necessary at 8 stones H. Playing a slide along the bottom to R2, for example, is too slow IMHO for high H go. It doesn't instill a sense of doom in b's mentality.]
;B[om]LB[ol:A]C[black chooses to lean: this sort of move is discussed in Ishida Akira's  _Attack and Defence_, for example.  Standing at

Stephenson:  With my viewer, I see A (P9) and B (P8) marked and you show a variation with B. You're right P8 next is much better than P9. W should choose straight shape. W has many tactical options to subsequently befuddle b. Here the CONCEPT to remember is play straight shape. P9 next is a serious shape error. It attaches to Q10, a potentially weak stone, "forcing" b to strengthen it. As such it is a "thank you" move. Further, if w doesn't want to do P8 for some reason, ok, try R12 then. Of course b always has a good way with so many H stones, but b will feel a bit uncomfortable because he does not know what he has, only knows his stone at Q10 is suddenly under pressure.]

(;W[ok]C[Black will stand...];B[oj]TR[ok][pl]C[Now these stones are also under attack.   Moving out into the centre would be worthwhile,
but you get a heavy position

Stephenson: If w does play at the marked point of B (N9 next) it leaves a weakness at P8. That w must play slow at O9 shows why P9 was a mistake for w in the first place.]

(;W[qf]LB[nd:A]C[If you want to leave things for a bit, I'd look to the far side
of the board.    The rhythm here is off a bit.  Maybe a high approach on the other side?
Just a cap from black would work nicely...


I think this whole opening along the right side is where the
trouble for the rest of the game comes from, which is why
I'm looking at it so closely.  Please don't be too upset.

Stephenson: I have no idea what you mean by the rhythm being off. The battle on the right has all kinds of urgency about it. It is not appropriate to tenuki (play elsewhere) to the other side of the board. To tenuki when faced with an urgent situation and to take gote when faced with a non-urgent situation are two major mistakes w is counting on his weaker opponent to repeatedly make. If w is going to make that mistake without knowing it, then w should switch colors, or, if w does that because he judges b isn't capable to punish it, that's good playing.

Concept of URGENCY: when the situation of a group is unsettled or uncomfortable or unclear. Usually there are problems with 1. liberties,  2. connection or 3. base that characterize urgent situations. Those are like the 3 food groups of go. Don't tenuki urgent situations for a big point is the general law.]

(;B[qe]C[Stephenson: of course instead of R15 b should just play O9, the urgent and vital point. But b doesn't understand about urgent points so w can afford the luxury of ignoring them sometimes.]

(;W[qc]LB[pc:A][re:B]C[This is too rushed.  Black has choices at A and B.

This is what you want to avoid, really.   White only
wants black to be able to choose when all the respones
lead to more complications.  Giving black a chance to  simplify things is usually too nice or honest.

Stephenson: yes, R17 is not usual. But it is not what b expects either. It's a good psych move. Low kyu high H players want to get some solid corner. That is about all they really comprehend. R17 puts it in their face. So, it's a good move to do this once in a while. (Of course it's an overplay, but that is exactly the point.)]

(;B[re]C[Black splits white: this gives up a bigger corner, but is more dangerous.

Stephenson: only black is in danger in a high handicap game.]
;W[pc];B[od]LB[nb:A];W[oc]C[Black's hane is automatic: sliding with a knight's move would  stabilise the group faster.

Stephenson: perhaps, but w needs to get sente, since w must control the initiative. This way w can come out with sente.]
;B[nc];W[nb];B[mc];W[mb];B[lc]C[White at last has sente, but leaves a defect in the corner.

Stephenson: defects are only such if the opponent can recognize and punish them.]
;W[pf]LB[nd:A]SQ[ok][pl]C[This is probably too late, now that black has a wall.  Still, aiming
at the cut at o16 (A) isn't too unreasonable.

Stephenson: If w does Q14 then w should not be giving 8H. W voluntarily creates a HEAVY group in the b zone of influence. W must play lightly and resiliently around there (such as o13), and the timing is important. Now it's too early.  O9 is URGENT even though also creating heavy stones. The two marked w stones are important to get out to separate black so w can make mischief on the lower right later. W just has to assume that he can successfully push b around there.

Stephenson: sorry, there is no real cut at O16. It is barely aji.]
;B[ng]LB[qi:A][nf:B]C[Black attacks on a large scale.  Sliding or jumping down the
right side is probably necessary, or else you could try to resist
with a jump towards the centre.

Stephenson: O13 is ok but O9 is the vital point and even larger scale. Both R11 and O14 are feeble for w, but w is stuck because he did the heavy losing play at Q14. When I am teaching, I sometimes make Q14 heavy moves to induce b to win the game, to educate b how it is possible and necessary to punish such things.]
;W[pe]C[This helps black, while still leaving your stones heavy.

Stephenson: w, don't push in if you cannot cut.];B[qd]C[Now black can aim at killing or at least making seki
of the corner...

Stephenson: you are right to the extent that w provoked black to damage w position for no good reason.]

(;W[ne]LB[rc:A]C[This jump is wrong.  Black can hane at A to attack the corner,
or else just push through the jump.

Stephenson: this jump is not necessarily wrong because in an imposible situation it still gives b the chance to go wrong. W just cannot be content to make a miserable life on the right in gote. Bluffing must be a part of H go. When the situation gets tough, the tough bluff.]

(;B[of]C[Black misses an opportunity.

Stephenson: of course he does. He is playing b, isn't he?];W[oe]
;B[nd];W[mf];B[mg]C[Now you should keep moving out to be consistent.
Save destroying the right side for later.

Stephenson: correcto mundo!];W[qi]C[This is a good move, but not in keeping with the push
into the centre.  I think maybe you should do this first.

Stephenson: R11 is questioniable because it provokes b to strengthen. M14 is really the only move. W must envision he is attacking and surrounding b on the middle right big scale, as ludicrous as that is, it's appropriate in 8H.]
;B[ph]C[This is hard to deal with.

Stephenson: I cannot understand what you mean. Why is it hard to deal with? If you don't explain something in specifics or applicable concepts it may just mystify the reader of your review. Do you mean that it's hard to know what w needs to do here strategically? Or, are some tactics difficult? Or?   In fact b's Q12 is slack. Black should have just blocked with R10 since it keeps the w group on the top separated and heavy while it strengthens the bottom right. W doesn't necessarily have to do anything about Q12, but since connection is one of the 3 basic things in go (recall the others are liberties and base), perhaps w should just connect with R12 locally. But strategically it is a big minus if w gets shut off from the center around M14.]
;W[og];B[pg];W[qg]
(;B[oh];W[nj]C[This is  a good move.

Stephenson: in genral, when any reviewer says its a good move or bad move, the reviewer should explain why. Anyways, w's move is not good because it leaves easily cutable shape and provides little inducement for b to go wrong. The b group around P12 has becoming stronger after the capture at O13 so even the b player can easily manage around here. I think O9 is proper (it stays connected) if w wants to do something here, even if w's group is a heavy group. This could be an instance of where that patience you mentioned in your introduction is needed.]
;B[nf]C[Black doesn't need this eyespace so badly.

Stephenson: the error is that b lost some potential to play M14 after w connects. But black does not understand potential.]
;W[me];B[ni]
(;W[qj]SQ[re][nj][ok][pl]C[I don't know if this is necessary.  I'd want to keep moving to
the centre now.

Stephenson: you seem to be making a direction comment, but without explanation, so I don't know how to understand your comment or apply your idea in other situations. What is strategically questionable is w seems to be trying make a base and territory on the middle right while it is open on the bottom due to S15. Also w is damaging the marked stones during this maneuvre.]
;B[pk];W[qk];B[nk];W[mj]C[Right choice.

Stephenson: wrong choice. It's double atari. w saves an unimportant stone with N10 abutting b's strong group. Perhaps better to slide to S6 since w started this whole right side procedure or take sente elsewhere.]
;B[nl]TR[ok]C[The triangled stone is captured now.

Stephenson: yes, but there is a little bad aji. B should just take it off with P8. O8 is clever but not smart.]
;W[mi]C[This is the wrong direction.  The edge group is mostly stable,
but so is the black group.  Running out is better.

Stephenson: oh? I suppose, but really there is nothing to develop or attack with these floating w center stones. Since b is connected on the right, his stones are secured. Perhaps w should make a bluff attack with G16. W repeats his earlier mistake by voluntarily creating a heavy group for no reason. See definition below. In general when you cannot find a good continuation, it's often ok to consider a tenuki.

HEAVY: a group with defects in libereties, connection or base, which cannot be easily maneuvred, and which is too big to be easily sacrificed for adequate ancillary benefit.]
;B[ki]C[Black attacks again.];W[mh]C[Much too heavy.  My guess is you have missed the black  connection at the bottom of the group.

Stephenson: if your guess is accurate then w cannot give 8H. W has to pay some attention to important matters.]
;B[lg]TR[mh][mi][mj][nj]C[The white stones are practically captured now.

Stephenson: correcto mundo. After 52 moves b still has his full H advantage. Not a good trend.]
;W[oi];B[pi];W[nh];B[kk];W[lk];B[ll];W[kh];B[lh];W[kf];B[kj]
C[Black doesn't need this move.

Stephenson: ok, but b cannot read much so b makes a thick move. He keeps securely connected. His move is not without value.]
;W[kd]C[Making a bamboo joint would be better.  You need to be careful
not to endanger your corner.

Stephenson: a bamboo joint loses sente.];B[kc];W[je]C[Faster!]
;B[id];W[ie];B[hd]C[Pushing the cart before the horse.

Stephenson: does "push the cart" mean that black is gaining or white is gaining or? (b is the one who is gaining.)]
;W[fc]C[I would approach from the other side, but the timing is ok.

Stephenson: oh? What is your consideration for approaching from other side? Why is this move good timing. I am pretty sure the player reading your commentary would need to know that to be able to appreciate your thinking. I would like to know how you figured it. Just a feeling? Some concept at work here?]
;B[ec]LB[df:A]C[Black should play on top.  You can now play
a nice double approach move around (A)

Stephenson: sorry, but confused again. Are you saying that w should play at D14 next? Is b on top meaing a b stone at F16 instead of E17? If so, why should b play there? (You are correct though, b should play there instead of attaching at E17. In most basic terms, the reason seems connection to his stones on the upper right.)]
;W[cc]C[Aiee!  Just stand out or approach from further away.
This is too rushed.

Stephenson: if this is too rushed, I guess it means that w suffers in some way on the outside?]
;B[cd]C[Black plays the other way now.  This time I think  black should split white's stones.

Stephenson: ok. why? I'm not belligerant or disagreeing. Just like to learn and discuss.]
;W[dc]
(;B[fd]C[black descending would be better.

Stephenson: correcto. Because it is tactically possible to split w apart and gain on one side or the other. If b descends to E18 insterad of F16,, b can handle the w cut at E16 by playing hane at B17.]
;W[eb]C[This is ok for white, but black should connect.
White will still have to live, and black can then
close the bottom left corner.

Stephenson: yes, b must answer this w atari and w would probably lose sente by taking gote at F3.]
;B[gc]C[black doesn't nees to worry so much.

Stephenson: it is about time b started helping w instead of the other way around. B's move is a gross error, of course.]
;W[ed]C[This is a great success for white.
Black should block on the outside still,
but white is always happy to have a ko lying about.];B[fb]C[White should just connect now and either take the corner
or cut into the centre.

Stephenson: connecting at E17 is good enough for w.]
(;W[fe]C[black should take the ko, but white can fight happily.

Stephenson: we see the true character of the 8H black player emerging. I'm not insulting the particular player in this game. I'm taking about a paradigm here. All of us players have been through this stage as we learned the game. It's almost like w is making a move and then b is making another move for w.]
;B[ge]C[this is a strange move.  the solid connection is better,
if black doesn't want to start the ko.]
(;W[gd];B[nr]LB[qh:A]C[This is not a small threat, but white has been ignoring
these stones and has few prospects in this corner.
Maybe the push at (A) is better?]
(;W[he]C[Stephenson: W goes all out. But w gotta have a least 1 ko threat that b will answer. W doesn't seem to have it. So connecting at F16 is reasonable instead.
Here is another one of those patience instances.];B[fd];W[ec]
;B[gd];W[ff];B[gf];W[dg]C[Stephenson: D14 instead of D13 is the vital point of this shape locally. It helps the connection at E15 better.]
;B[ef];W[ee];B[df];W[de]C[Stephenson: E13 instead of D15 works to catch b. But b will help w catch him anyway.]
;B[ce];W[eg];B[cf];W[cg];B[bc];W[bb];B[ad]C[This is a great success for white: the black stones are practically dead;
a connection]
(;W[bf]C[This is probably not required, but it definitely settles the position.
The only problem is that it is gote, even if the black stones are  captured.  20 points in gote = 10 points in sente: there are bigger moves.

Stephenson: Oh? Where? Sorry, its urgent to kill them. Because, let's say that w does something like F3. If b then hanes at B13 he may subsequently live IN SENTE since w must go back to fix the connection at F13.]
;B[be];W[bg];B[cj]LB[dq:A]C[This seems a little late to me.  I'd look to something like
(A) to close the bottom left corner.

Stephenson: the two b stones on the left side could become a heavy group since they are close to strong w stones.]
;W[cn];B[co]C[Stephenson: seems like b only know one response.]
;W[fq]SQ[cj][dj]C[This is just right, I think.

Stephenson: why? I think in a review you need to explain your opinions more concretely.   *** ok here is my overall comment on the reviewer's comments ***

Even if your opinions are not correct, and mostly all our amateur opinions are incorrect, the value of them to the game's players is learning in a meaningful way another's point of view. Thereby the players (and others reading the review) can think more deeply about what is happening; and, consequently, deepen their enjoyment in all there subsequent games. That is leverage big time! But, most of all, the benefit in having to explain your comments is that it forces you, the reviewer, to need to think them through yourself. To the extent you cannot really explain your comment more than being your feeling, you have the happy circumstance of identifying a gap in your go conciousness to seek pointed discussion about with other players. I guess I'm suggesting if you are going to bother doing reviews, then you deserve to get the full benefit from it. Also, ask yourself how content you would be with your own limited review if it were your game being review by someone else. Could you really learn something?  Yes, of course, its all happy volunteers and we are not pros and people ought to be happy to get anything. But in my own reviewing experience, I find I get out twice as much as I put into it if I do my best more THOROUGH review job, but if I do any less I somehow think my game gets worse. Strange.

Well, back to the game, in this situation, w's changing direction from the left to the bottom will just help the two marked black stones on the left become useful instead of potentially heavy. Maybe in an even game I could be persuaded but not in this 8H game.]
;B[fp];W[eo]LB[gp:A]C[peep is too rushed.  just hane. (A)

Stephenson: hmm, timing words again.];B[ep];W[do];B[cq];W[bo]
;B[cp];W[gq];B[hp];W[hq];B[iq];W[gp];B[fo];W[ho];B[ip];W[go]
;B[dn];W[en];B[dm];W[cm];B[cl];W[bl];B[bk];W[dl];B[em];W[ck]
;B[fm];W[bj];B[dk];W[ak];B[el];W[gn];B[fn]LB[cl:A]C[Hard for me to say who got the better of the fight,
but in general you don't like black being settled.   The ko at (A) is potentially troublesome.

Stephenson: W got much better. W gained points and should now handle the bottom ok even though the w group is heavy, because of the difference in level b should not be able to  punish properly. If b takes ko at C8 w is tactically ok to connect at B9. If b then hanes at B11 to try to separate, the w at C11 works.]
;W[gm]SQ[jp][ip][hp][iq]C[Stephenson: G7 is too slow. W needs to settle those stones as fast as possible. Consider N2, and if b answers (b always answers in 8H) then L5 to make complications and sabaki is severe on b. May even kill b.]

(;B[hj]SQ[hp][ip][jp][iq]C[This is the wrong direction.  The centre is open on three
sides: no territory here.  Black should look to seal the  bottom right.]
;W[fk]C["Peeping at a cutting point".

Stephenson: because C8 is sente, it's not a cutting point.]
;B[fj]C[black is too conservative now.]
(;W[jn]C[This is good.     But, might also try to drag old stones to safety.
(Probably your move is better.)];B[lp];W[qq]C[Hmm.];B[pq];W[qp]
;B[qo];W[ro];B[rn];W[qr];B[rp];W[rm]C[Rather baroque way to seal off the side in sente, but you are
still open at the top.];B[sn];W[mr];B[os];W[qm];B[pm];W[ol]
C[??];B[ql];W[rl];B[qn];W[pl];B[ol];W[mn]C[This is a good move.  I think you should play this first,
before that corner and side stuff.

The moral is still to not let black have a settled position.

Stephenson: ok. But in fairness w tried to make some mischief and basically screwed up locally. It happens. The lower right was a series of tactically bizarre moves for both including w putting himself into atari, but datza the amateur go game. I think people lose their focus during the game due to fatigue. I sure do. Maybe I need more herbal tea.   Stephenson:  ** My comments end here, except for my advice to the w player at the end. Damien the reviewer, I hope you found some of my ranting helpful. Please just ignore the rest. Keep trying, the knack for teaching and reviewing comes with practice over time. **]
;B[mo];W[ln];B[no];W[lq]C[tricky...];B[mp];W[nn];B[mq]C[black's play is not needed.]
;W[ir];B[kq];W[jr];B[kr];W[lr];B[js];W[ko];B[jq];W[hr];B[er]
;W[fr];B[gs]C[black can't really hope to kill the white stones.
this is an over-play.];W[fs];B[es];W[eq];B[dq];W[dr];B[cr];W[ds]
;B[bp]
(;W[an]C[the hanging connection is very dangerous here!
"make a leg"

Stephenson: i think you need to explain this in a variation to illustrate the tactical danger. Afterall, is "make a leg" something to do all the time, or is the hanging connection appropriate sometimes? The only way to distinguish is case by case with some reading. So, what precisely is wrong with it here?]
;B[cs];W[is]C[small... one point with small sente];B[ks];W[kp]
;B[ms];W[lo];B[oo];W[kg];B[ig];W[gg];B[hf];W[if];B[ii];W[jg]
;B[jh];W[lf];B[ld];W[hg];B[ih];W[ke];B[lb];W[qh]C[this connection is not really necessary: the top needs this
move more.]
(;B[ma];W[ob];B[fa]C[small.  can still kill the top.];W[ea]
;B[gb];W[on]C[this is dame];B[jl];W[il];B[ik];W[hl];B[gk];W[gi]
;B[fh];W[fg];B[gh];W[ei];B[fi];W[eh];B[ci];W[ej];B[ek];W[hh]
;B[gj];W[hi];B[gl];W[bi];B[io];W[in]C[some nice moves here.]
;B[mm];W[jo];B[ls];W[jm];B[lm]C[this is small.];W[km];B[kl]
;W[rc]C[at last!];B[rg];W[rf];B[sf];W[rh];B[sg];W[sh];B[se]
;W[rq]C[??
checking that black is awake...];B[sp];W[sr];B[rs];W[sm];B[ql]
;W[rk];B[pl];W[ap]C[this is a dangerous hane.];B[aq];W[ao];B[sc]
;W[sb];B[sd];W[rb];B[na];W[oa];B[la];W[ra]TR[dl]C[this is not needed.
connect the ko.];B[ch];W[bh]
(;B[tt]C[black should atari and then capture the ko,
just for the sake of a tidy end.]
(;W[tt]C[this looks like an unfinished position to me.


To sum up, the early mistakes let black build a very strong centre
and lower right corner.  Even later good play isn't enough to  compensate: white has very few opportunities to make the game  close.

Stephenson: my advice to the w player is to contemplate the concepts of fast vs slow moves and light vs heavy stones.]
)
(;W[cl]))
(;B[am];W[bn];B[cl];W[bm];B[bk];W[al];B[ck]))
(;B[rc];W[rb];B[sb]
(;W[qb];B[pa])
(;W[qa];B[ma];W[oa];B[pb])
(;W[pb];B[ra];W[qa])))
(;W[bn]))
(;W[mr];B[os];W[lp];B[jn];W[kr]C[Hmm.  Maybe this is too dangerous...]
))
(;B[lp]))
(;W[gg]C[a connection like this is probably good enough,
if you want to stay in the neighbourhood.

Stephenson: ok, but then it looks like b can have a ko at least on the upper left then with A18 and B13 etc. So the nice looking play at G13 must be slack.]
))
(;W[gb];B[fd];W[ec];B[gd])
(;W[de]C[just expanding into the centre is probably good enough.]
))
(;W[ec];B[ee];W[gd];B[ff];W[fd];B[df];W[he];B[gf];W[hc]C[order reversal]
))
(;W[ec];B[ee];W[fe]
(;B[gd];W[de];B[ef];W[ce];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[bb])
(;B[ef];W[gd]
(;B[ff];W[he];B[hb])
(;B[he];W[ff];B[hf];W[fg])
(;B[ge];W[fd];B[ff]
(;W[gb])
(;W[he];B[gf];W[hc])))))
(;B[eb]))
(;W[kf]))
(;B[qh];W[rh];B[rg];W[rf];B[ri];W[sg];B[qj];W[oh];B[pi];W[nf]
C[Maybe this is ok.]))
(;B[oe]
(;W[of];B[nf])
(;W[nf];B[of];W[og];B[pg])))
(;W[nf]TR[pe][qd]C[This is the only jump available, but the marked exchange  hasn't much helped it compared to the problems in the corner.]
))
(;B[pc];W[re];B[rd]
(;W[qd];B[rc];W[pe];B[qb]C[If black wants the corner... hard to recommend, tho';
white ignores the atari and has good shape.])
(;W[qd];B[pe];W[rc];B[rf];W[sd];B[qg]C[With a high handicap, ladders are almost always in black's favour.]
)))
(;W[pf];B[nd];W[ph];B[nf]TR[oj][pj]C[Black can aim to push white into the triangled stones,
so this sort of thing looks difficult for white.]))
(;B[of]))
(;W[mk];B[nl];W[nk]C[The bottom group looks ever sadder...]
))
(;W[ol]C[Standing would be more conventional.  If black hanes...]
;B[nl];W[oj]TR[ol][pl]LB[qq:A]C[... just jump out.    Black will have several choices now, but this sort of fight  seems ok to me.  As a last resort, you should consider  abandoning the original (now triangled) stones, but there
are lots of cuts and peeps to aim at.   The goal is to disrupt black's position while aiming at the centre.
The lack of a good peep at the bottom right three-three point
makes things a bit difficult, but manageable.]))
(;W[lp]C[this is the conventional joseki when black plays the diagonal attachment
black has several options, but something like this might be expected]
;B[kq];W[mm]C[now white can aim at 3,3 or 8,3 invasions];AW[pl]
[ql][qq]TR[pl][ql][qq]))
