(;FF[4]GM[1]SZ[19]ST[2]CA[UTF-8]AP[SGFC:1.13b]

PB[totalgolai]
BR[20k]
PW[ignaciot]
WR[15k]
KM[5.5]
DT[2003-02-22]
PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]
TM[1800]
OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
RU[Japanese]

C[IJT:
Hi, my name is Ignacio and I played White on this one. I would like to
hear your comments about the opening, and I also have questions on
particular moves. Thanks a lot for your time reviewing the game, and
hope this will help me analyze my lousy play =)

rhi: hi ignacio,
I'am richard, playing 10 kyu in france.

I'm happy to review your game:
    - I like looking at stones :)
    - It looks like you know what you're looking for, and I hope my advices will serve.


let's see ;). .......

[wallace\]
hi Richard, I'm Sylvain, playing 4k in France, but I'll make my review
in English to make it available to more people...];B[pp];W[dd]
;B[cp];W[qd]LB[qc:B][pd:A][qe:C]C[IJT:
Is that the "symmetrically correct" answer? Could I have just played on
A instead?


RHI: ok, At my level I can't tell you why you'd better play A B or C ...
Why
choose one particularly depends on what j"osekis" could come up then,
and what inflence those future positions could make on the goban.

However, You're not obliged to play simetrically, and A would be good too.

In fact, it should depend on what kind of moves you know yet around that corner point,
or which ones you would like to experiment.

[wallace\]
Concerning the very early stage of the opening, it is difficult to be
very precise. However there are big differences in the game that will
follow, between say B (san-san) and A (hoshi).
The played stone
"works" mainly in one direction: toward the left (imagine a pincer
there for instance). It thus is good balance with the upper left stone.
C
or Q17 on the contrary would work toward the bottom, and would thus
invite Black to play in that direction, getting a good extension from
his lower right hoshi stone and robbing that of White.

To conclude, A, B or the played stone are fine, C (or Q17) are a bit more strange.]
;B[jq];W[kc]LB[gc:A][fd:2][cf:1][dj:3][pj:4][ep:5]TR[fc][oc]
[od]C[This is ok to me, even if I rarely play such fuseki.

Yours looks like the chinese one !
(impressive fuseki for those who don't know it)

Here, I guess you should expect things like A
or around perhaps

[wallace\]
The chinese fuseki is nice, but you have to understand its meaning:
building a moyo. It is thus natural to want to extend on one of the
sides.
However Black here can do the same, and he plays first! Even
if his formation is less balanced (because of K3) he can keep the
initiative and lead the game.

Imagine for instance a sequence like 1, 2...5
Now
Black has a flawless development, while White is still open. If now
White reinforces Black keeps the initiative and thus the lead.

It
is hard to criticize the move in the game, but for B there is no hurry
to invade (rather than A the marked points would be more standard).]
;B[cf];W[ci]TR[jd]C[rhi:
yes !
this is right direction:
you can pince blakc as you already have a stone around middle edge hoshi.

[wallace\] well.. as you point out the stone is around the hoshi... however it is a bit far away.
Moreover, White pincered low and far, he thus will have a hard time enclosing Black in the corner. See var for an example...

I would say that for White a simple answer at F16 would have been (at least) as good.]

(;B[eg]
(;W[ei]C[rhi:
yep, you have to try to escape
avoid surrounding of black,
but ...
you have another weaker stone which you should defend first ..
see variation before]
(;B[ck];W[gh]LB[gh:A][gi:B]C[still
in danger white should consider tobi (A) to fly away, while keima (B)
is reserved for attacking moves. here, white first has to defend him
self.

[wallace\] The letters seem reversed: A is keima, B is tobi.
To be consistent with the previous comment, note that White should rather play F16 or F17: these two stones are NOT in danger]
;B[fk];W[ff]C[Ok, this is the good direction for white:
capping black to shrunk possibilities

[wallace\] yes but this move leaves lots of weaknesses... F16 is still better]
;B[ef];W[ee];B[ce];W[cd];B[de]C[arghlll,
very bad shape for black :(
Will see another one later, remind the
"empty triangle" horrible shape.


"hooommmm: empty triange is horrible"
"hommmm: empty triangle is horrible "
"horrible: hommptriangle is ummy "
"hoblemmmm triangulumm ..."

please, never play emptriangles. :-)

[wallace\] :)];W[fd]LB[fg:A][gg:B]TR[fe]C[goood,
this is good protection (it was the right place to play at that time)

[wallace\] The marked spot (F15) would be even better, allowing the A, B exchange without leaving a weakness.]
;B[bh];W[qm]LB[fd:A][bi:C][qm:B]TR[pn][qn]SQ[qj]C[IJT:
Did I need to cover A (F16) or could I played R7 before? By the way, is
R7 a good approach for the right side? Are the marked places too close
or too far away from R16?


rhi: A was the most urgent move at that time.
so better (far) than R7.
R7 is a good place to attack,
but
you must know that black "will" go to marked place (as white did
before, and for the same reason) so you should be prepared to it.

Marked stone are'nt too close. There are conventionnal places to approache black corner hoshi.
The choice depends on what josekis you're prepared to receive/play. (as usual :)


But unfortunately, it is absolute not the time to approach that part of the goban:
The battle in the upper left region isn't finish yet.
And unless you'd be cleary aware about the respective values of  'B' and'C',
I guess you'd better finish battle.
C is an important move to split black's forces.

But in fact, B is the second important place of the goban where to play.
So B isn't foolish.

[wallace\] I agree on the fact that C is urgent (much much more important than B).
Concerning the approach of the lower right, don't be overconcerned by josekis, just play as you feel!
Also remark that a move around L15 would be very big also.]

(;B[ro]LB[bi:1][qj:2][np:3]C[hum, as you already know, this is not the good move for black.(here, pinceris better)

In order of importance: 1 2 or 3

[wallace\] The pincer might be better *because* the K3 stone is not too far :)
However,
pincering a two-space approach is not that easy, you might consider a
closer pincer (R9 instead of R10), otherwise you don't have much
leverage on the pincered stone.];W[pj]C[yes, good: you stabilize while extending while gaining center influence.
good move];B[om];W[pl];B[mm]
(;W[gj]LB[od:E][ke:F][bi:A][mj:B][dl:C][ep:D]C[Hu ? what for exactly ?
A (of course ;) looks better in this region.
To gain sphere of influence, B looks better too.
C is a good pointer to blacks other weakness,
preparing nice jump to D.
(this is a nice attacking technique called "leaning attack").
This last one has my preference.

(but in fact, you're move protect a problematic cut .. so .. not really sure about the latter ;)

[wallace\]
As you end up pointing out, the played move is not so bad: it now
really strongly threatens A, without fear of being cut.
I still agree that A could be played without it though.

Concerning B, it is probably too large since the upper right corner is not *closed* yet, consider first E and F.

I
do not agree about C, actually it might end up creating another weak
group (see var). Why not simply invade at D directly, leaving options
open on the left side.];B[gk]LB[ep:A]C[good, solid answer.
Perhaps right now the balance favors black.

[wallace\] solid, but not as big as a move around A.];W[nl]
LB[mk:A]TR[od][ep]C[IJT: Would have been better to play A?

rhi:
yes, A is enough to protect you're influence sphere (I even adviced one step higher)
while you're actual move will strenghten black's position.

[wallace\]
I agree that A is better shape and allows a fastezr development.
However both players should think about reinforcing/invading around the
corners...];B[lk];W[lj]C[ignaciot [15k?\]: hope you're right]
;B[kk];W[kj]C[totalgolai [20k\]: i think i'm right];B[nm];W[ol]
;B[hj];W[hi];B[fj];W[gi]LB[fh:B][fi:A]C[IJT: I know this is a bad shape. Probably I should have played at A and try a ko.


rhi: you're right. but especially because now black can cut white's stones.

[wallace\] and also because A doesn't lead to a ko (if A and B takes, White still has the option to connect!).

However one intersection above A (B) is even better as it will not give the capture sente for Black.]

(;B[ij];W[ji];B[fq]LB[bi:A]C[hum, It looks like you divided the goban in two parts.
which one is bigger ?
White's sphere is bigger than black's one (not considering upper left black's group).

white frontiere however looks weaker.

So finally, the big place to play is still A cutting blacks life space !
(after considering connecting white)

[wallace\] I agree, but there is still room for invasion in White's framework (thanks to the frontier's weaknesses)]
;W[qo]LB[bd:C][od:B][bi:A][mj:D][qq:E]C[:(
this is .. yes, forcing move perhaps...
but doesn't gain much point, and it's not worth considering that black still can erod white's territory .
This was a "yose" move ... There are much bigger points on the go ban:
a b c d, at least E come before

[wallace\] Totally agree for A and B
C is big yose, but yose.
D doesn't seem to work (White cuts!)
E might die in the corner if there is nothing around Q6...]
;B[qp];W[po];B[oo];W[pn]C[("hommmmm" ;)

[wallace\] bad because of empty triangle, but *also* useless!
So White's mistake is gote and aji-keshi (took away potential in the corner)]
;B[on];W[ml];B[ll];W[mk];B[jj];W[ii];B[jk];W[kh];B[mq]
(;W[ch]LB[bi:A]TR[cg]C[IJT: I guess the marked place (C13) should have been better.

rhi: dunno, A is the only place to play first

but with the presence of more black stones, the battle becomes more complicated.

In fact, we have to connect first, then ...
see variation before.];B[cg];W[dg];B[dh];W[eh];B[df];W[di];B[bi]
C[:( black get more advance here];W[be];B[bf];W[bd];B[cj];W[fg]
;B[bj];W[af];B[ag];W[ae];B[bg];W[dj];B[dk];W[ek];B[el];W[ej]
;B[fi];W[fh]LB[nc:B][qg:A]C[IJT:
These were all quite small moves, I think. I should have played bigger
points around A or B I guess.

rhi: yess ! you're ritht as we discussed about it before.
This is good that you have in mind that feeling about most important move.

[wallace\] True, but now that WHite's frontier is solid, it would be very hard for Black to invade, especially around A.
If B, White can C and it's hard to live...
The only remaining possibility might be the san-san...];B[cn]
;W[oc]C[In fact, I'm not very good at estimating:
my analyser says white is better by about 20 points.
So white hasn't lost at that black move in the upper left corner.
apologizes.];B[qf]LB[qf:B][qg:A][qh:C]C[IJT:
Should have I covered A/B instead? Did Black have less chances of doing
damage in the upper border?

rhi:
C was the right place to restreign blacks eye space.

[wallace\] agreed];W[pg];B[qg];W[qh];B[rh]
(;W[pf]C[see
variation];B[qi];W[ph];B[qj];W[qe]C[You still have to block blakcs
connexion between his upper edge group and downer linving stones.]
;B[rf];W[re];B[sf];W[se];B[pm];W[qn];B[ql];W[qk];B[rl];W[rk]
;B[rm]TR[qm][pn][qn][po][qo]C[IJT: I wonder how could I saved this group, if there was a chance.

rhi: here, you witness the very very bad shape that represent the "empty" triangle.

one of your goals will be to recognize and avoid such shapes.


If
you studied my variations, you discovered that I gave them to black: 6
poor points aren't worth the killing of black's "illegitime" group ;)]
;W[rj];B[ri]LB[sg:A][si:B][sk:C]C[Hey !
you still can kill black's group !
It's not living yet !
Kill It !
(psss: at A )

[wallace\]
Well... some of it is already dead. The only thing Black can do is play
B, threatening A or C (connects), thus you can then play A and take at
least 4 stones.
Moreover if you want to kill (which is good!) then play T8, as it kills and makes yose.]
;W[pi];B[si];W[sg]C[yessss !];B[sk]C[Arghh, that was one move two late ...
so close but so far ;)];W[sh]C[IJT: BAD BAD PLAY!! At least I could have played S13 and get the upper group, I imagine.


rhi:
ok, this is not so bad if you noticed it.
You can play bad moves, but you still have the good eye. That's pretty good skill that will help improve very fast.]
;B[rg];W[pk];B[sj];W[ni]C[IJT: Was this necessary?

[wallace\] rhi, you didn't answer... no it wasn't.];B[jn];W[cb]
C[IJT: Was this necessary?

[wallace\] same as before];B[tt];W[dg]C[Ok Ignacio,
I really liked reviewing that game: many interesting moves and flow of time.

 I hope I was usefull in some manner.

I repeat my main impression:
- you have the good eye
either on local play where at least you notice you errors,
- and on the global point of view, where your roughly understand the direction.

I would advice to work your reading skill:

- try to solve some reading problem (on the books or the net)
- do tsume-go problems two.
- improve you're fighting skill (reading in middle game) while in your games.

You'll gain self confidence a play more agressive moves.

Good luck and keep playing ;)


Feel free to send me any other questions.
see you.

[wallace\] Well, I enjoyed reviewing this review too :)
Most of what was said was true and pinpointed the mistakes of the game.
A few remarks and pointers for the first reviewer:
- as you advised, you too should perfect reading, as was shown on the right border...
-
don't be over-confident that the opponent will answer as you want
(which seemed to be the case for the "leaning attack" on the left, and
for most approaches);
- don't rely too much on what you *know* about
corner approaches: you seem to like pincers a lot, but they are not
always the better choice. Think about simple plays too.
- finally
don't underestimate invasions, as the game showed they can change the
result of a game. You didn't advise to invade or reinforce, but may be
you would have done it, so... Anyway, keep it in mind.

Don't hesitate either to ask me more questions, even in French :)]
;TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ha][ia][ja][ka][la][ma][na]
[oa][pa][qa][ra][sa][ab][bb][db][eb][fb][gb][hb][ib][jb][kb]
[lb][mb][nb][ob][pb][qb][rb][sb][ac][bc][cc][dc][ec][fc][gc]
[hc][ic][jc][lc][mc][nc][pc][qc][rc][sc][ad][ed][gd][hd][id]
[jd][kd][ld][md][nd][od][pd][rd][sd][fe][ge][he][ie][je][ke]
[le][me][ne][oe][pe][gf][hf][if][jf][kf][lf][mf][nf][of][gg]
[hg][ig][jg][kg][lg][mg][ng][og][hh][ih][jh][lh][mh][nh][oh]
[ki][li][mi][oi][mj][nj][oj][nk][ok]TB[sg][ah][sh][ai][aj][ak]
[bk][hk][ik][al][bl][cl][dl][fl][gl][hl][il][jl][kl][sl][am]
[bm][cm][dm][em][fm][gm][hm][im][jm][km][lm][qm][sm][an][bn]
[dn][en][fn][gn][hn][in][kn][ln][mn][nn][pn][qn][rn][sn][ao]
[bo][co][do][eo][fo][go][ho][io][jo][ko][lo][mo][no][po][qo]
[so][ap][bp][dp][ep][fp][gp][hp][ip][jp][kp][lp][mp][np][op]
[rp][sp][aq][bq][cq][dq][eq][gq][hq][iq][kq][lq][nq][oq][pq]
[qq][rq][sq][ar][br][cr][dr][er][fr][gr][hr][ir][jr][kr][lr]
[mr][nr][or][pr][qr][rr][sr][as][bs][cs][ds][es][fs][gs][hs]
[is][js][ks][ls][ms][ns][os][ps][qs][rs][ss]C[IJT:
Well, this is it. Maybe the key moves to win this match could have been
saving the lost group un the bottom-right and killing some of the
stones of Black's big group on the right border. I'm not sure if this
would have made a difference, anyway.
Again, thanks a lot for your time.])
(;W[ri];B[qi];W[ph];B[rj];W[rg];B[si];W[rf];B[re];W[qe];B[pf]
;W[of]LB[ri:A]C[As you can see white could stop black by playing the double hane (future sacrifice stone) at A

[wallace\] No! you let Black live or connect... see var. The score is now very close!]

(;B[rk]
(;W[qj];B[rm];W[rn]
(;B[sn]C[[wallace\] what is your conclusion?
Actually, this is ko...])
(;B[pm];W[rl];B[qn];W[sm]))
(;W[rl];B[qj];W[sk]))
(;B[rl]
(;W[rm];B[qj]C[[wallace\] Black is alive!]
(;W[sk];B[sl])
(;W[sl];B[sk])
(;W[qk];B[rk]))
(;W[qj];B[rn]C[[wallace\] Black is connected])))
(;W[qi]C[[wallace\] this is enough to kill Black!];B[ri];W[rj]
;B[re];W[rd];B[sg];W[si];B[se];W[rf];B[pf];W[og]C[[wallace\]
Black has only one eye on the border, but fleeing will lead him
nowhere...]))
(;W[cg];B[ch]
(;W[dh];B[dg]C[ooops ...])
(;W[dg];B[dh];W[eh];B[bg]C[ourglll]))
(;W[eh];B[bi];W[ch];B[bg]TR[bg][ch]C[:( nothing good to do I guess :(

[wallace\] last move by White was gote, the two marked stones should not be part of this exchange.]
)
(;W[bi];B[fi];W[eh];B[fh];W[fg];B[ch];W[bg];B[ah];W[ae];B[be]
C[:( still not possibilities :(]))
(;B[fi];W[fh];B[eh]))
(;W[dl]
(;B[dk];W[el];B[ek];W[ep]LB[bi:A][fi:B]C[[wallace\]
Si Noir separe, Blanc n'est pas beaucoup avantage dans le combat, il
est meme plutot plus lourd que s'il avait envahi directement. De plus,
maintenant si A alors Noir coupe en B...])
(;B[cl]
(;W[dm];B[dk]
(;W[ep];B[dq]C[[wallace\] combat difficile pour Blanc...])
(;W[cm];B[ep]C[[wallace\] pire...]))
(;W[dk];B[dm]C[[wallace\] this doesn't seem so promising either...]
))))
(;B[bi];W[bj];B[cj]
(;W[bk];B[di];W[ch];B[dh];W[cg];B[bg]C[hm... white couldn't cut that ;)]
)
(;W[ch]
(;B[cg];W[eh];B[bk]C[nor that way ...])
(;B[bk];W[bg];B[cg];W[bf];B[be];W[ah];B[aj]C[neither this doubtly one ...]
))))
(;B[fd];W[cc];B[gf]C[on the other hand, here, white is stuck in the corner]
))
(;W[fd];B[ej];W[cl]C[even if black caps white stone on middle edge, white can still stabilize himself.

[wallace\] agreed: that's the purpose of the low pincer. Moreover Black cannot easily counter-pincer as the pincer was 2-space.]
))
(;B[cc]
(;W[cd];B[dc];W[ed];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[ce];B[fc]C[[wallace\] This would of course be the bad direction for White...]
)
(;W[dc];B[cd];W[de];B[bf];W[df]LB[od:2][pg:1][pj:3]TR[jd]C[[wallace\]
At that point Black doesn't have to respond in the top left. He is free
to either enlarge his moyo (for instance with1, 2, 3) or to start
reducing White's one (the marked points seems ideal).])))
