(;FF[4]GM[1]SZ[19]ST[2]CA[UTF-8]AP[SGFC:1.15]

GN[Rainer-truesaint]
PB[truesaint]
BR[25k]
PW[Rainer]
WR[22k]
KM[6.5]
DT[2003-12-14]
PC[The Kiseido Go Server (KGS) at http://kgs.kiseido.com/]
RE[W+4.50]
TM[900]
OT[5x120 byo-yomi]
RU[Japanese]

C[White is Rainer (22k?)
Black is truesaint (25k?)
Online game on KGS.
Komi is 6.5.


truesaint: Hi...:)

This is the second game I'm submitting to the GTL. As before, I'm going to try writing down my thoughts as I remembered it, please do not hesitate to criticize or correct my line of thinking.

Thank you very much in advance.];B[pd]C[Ted: My name is Ted Schuerzinger, and I'll be reviewing your game for the GTL.

It took me quite some time to figure out where you're going wrong, since you yourself spotted a number of your tactical mistakes in the fights after the fact.  But then it hit me -- I think your biggest mistake is *strategic*.  You seem to be looking to fight in situations where fighting is not particularly necessary.

The attacks in the top right corner (R17), the H17 attack, and worrying too much about what White could get in the lower right, are I believe good examples of this.

Having said that, I should add that *all* of us amateurs have similar conceptual errors in our games.]
;W[dp]C[catch22: Hi,Ted. I am  here to comment on your review of the game. So this is a review of a review.

I will comment on your (Ted's) remarks. On top of that, I will also answer some of truesaint's unanswered questions, under the assumption that you were not quite sure how to answer.

By the way, I'm 4k (IGS) at the moment, so I still have much to learn myself.]
;B[pp];W[dd];B[cn]C[truesaint: The same position happened during my first GTL-reviewed game, with me playing white. The reviewer said that this is a very common move, so I'm trying it out...:)]
;W[co];B[dk]C[truesaint:
to be honest, i don't really know how to proceed. I was thinking of doing C14 (an 'approach' move?), and THEN D9 or D10, but I guess I'm too scared to have my opponent play a pincer. (for example, Black C14, White D10).

Ted: Stronger players have told me here that the standard move here is at D6.  After that, the idea is to extend out to something like C9 or C10.

catch22: Yes, THE move here is indeed D6. Without this move, the C6 stone is very weak and hardly has any value. White could for instance now play C6 himself. This would give White nice influence and puts pressure on Black's stone at C9. Black should not try to rescue the C6 stone then, as White would play C11 and attack the entire group. See the variation.

After Black extends to D6, his follow-up would be a three stone extension to C10. Extending to C9 instead would be too close and therefore inefficient.]

(;W[gp];B[cf]C[truesaint: continuing with the plan, although that G4 looks like problem... I'm expecting white to respond in the A19 corner, so I'll play H3 next.

Ted: I think this move is extending too far from D9.  If White wants to fight, White could attack at C12 or D12, with the intention of playing under the D9 stone.

catch22: Indeed, this stone is too far away from the stone at C9. White should, however, not invade immediately as Black would jump into the top left corner in response.]
;W[fd]C[truesaint: unexpected move. I was really tempted to go with C16 or C17, but it might be too early to start a fight, so i decided to ignore it for a while.

Ted: White's move looks perfectly good to me.  What were you expecting White to do here that this was a surprise to you?

The point I'm trying to make is that it's a good idea to think of how your opponent will respond to your moves -- although I'll admit I face a lot of unexpected moves myself.

catch22: Yes, White's move is fine. Neither C16 or C17 would be a fight, by the way. C17 is a simple invasion, where Black gets a small amount of corner territory, and White gets influence in return. C16 is a contact play, which typically strengthens both sides. A fight, on the other hand, threathens to kill. Black needs additional stones in the area before he can start an attack in all earnest.]
;B[iq];W[hq];B[lp]C[truesaint: i was quite happy with this, since IF white chose to defend A19 now, I can concentrate on the upper right corner.

Ted: You're also opening yourself up to weakness if you let White play at J2.

catch22: Agreed. The J3 stone, like the C6 stone, is very weak. There is also too much space between the M4 and Q4 stones.]
;W[nc]C[truesaint: EEEK...:)

Ted: You weren't surprised by this, were you?  Remember the adage, "Your opponent's best move is your best move".

catch22: This is a natural move by White. If Black was to move instead, his best move would not be O17 though. It would be too slow (securing the corner would require another move). Making a san sen rei with Q10 would be better. So I am not quite sure that the adage applies here.]
;B[lc]C[truesaint: a pincer? I don't know which is better: M17, or somewhere around R13.

Ted: I think it's a matter of personal preference here.  A move like R13 or R14 would be good for getting some territory in the top right, as well as making it a bit more difficult for White to attack on the right side.  M17 attacks the O17 stone directly, while making it more difficult for White to get as much territory at the top.

catch22: I agree. it's a matter of preference. Both are perfectly playable.]

(;W[jc]LB[cc:a][ec:b][hc:c]C[truesaint:
Black seems to be in trouble because suddenly white looks very strong on the upper side.

Ted: For some reason, I don't like White's last move.

catch22: White's move is a bit strange, but seems playable. White cannot be called strong on the upper side. The black stone at M17 separates the two white stones. Black also still has strong moves marked by a, b and c.

I have shown a more common way of playing for White in the variation (a joseki).

By the way, Ted, when reviewing it helps if you present a well thought out argument why certain moves are good or bad. With a bit of luck, a weaker player may latch on to some concepts and improve his game. "For some reason" is maybe not too helpful. ;-)]
;B[me];W[pc];B[qc]C[truesaint: black is starting a fight ? :p

Ted: I don't think you need to fight here.  Play a safe move like R16, and let White get a small amount of territory in the corner.  At the same time, you'll be setting yourself up to be much stronger on the right side.

catch22: I agree. Black can build a wall similar to the one shown in the previous variation (where White jumped into the corner with R17). There is one difference though. Black would now end in sente, and could play at Q10 for a good result!]
;W[qb];B[oc]C[truesaint: looking back, this move looks bad... I suppose the idea was White Q18, Black P18, trying to separate the two white groups.

catch22: Not much wrong with this move. However, after White Q18, Black should play R16. Otherwise White would play here and sacrifice the stone at O17. It would, however, still have enough aji (latent potential) to play a part in the remainder of the game.

Ted, one thing I noticed from truesaint's comments is that he even calls single stones a "group". I think this reflects and area of his game where truesaint can still improve his play. 

I think it is useful to distinguish unimportant stones from groups. Groups are collections of stones that cannot be easily sacrificed, because they are strategically too  important. It is, however, important to recognise that not all stones are important, and some can easily be sacrificed. O17 is for instance such a stone. 

I believe this is something you already touched upon in your introductory comment. I think it is indeed helpful to identify one or two specific weaknesses, and explain how a player can improve his game in these areas.]
;W[ob];B[pb];W[pa];B[pc]C[truesaint:

I spent some time thinking about this, and it does look good for black before this move. BUT I don't like ko (yet...:), so i'm closing it off.

catch22: Still nothing wrong with Black's result here at the moment. In fact, it looks very good. White should have connected at Q18 instead of playing P18.]
;W[mb]
(;B[pg]C[truesaint:
should black attacked white instead at this point? Please see variant.

Ted: I think Black should have attacked with M18 instead of your suggested atari at S18.  You were expecting White to defend the R18 stone, which White should have sacrificed.  If White can play M18, White will connect to the K17 stone.

catch22: Agreed. M18 would be interesting for Black, whereas White should ignore S18.]
;W[lb]C[truesaint:
Apparently white sees the threat. Should have played there first...:)]
;B[nd];W[mc];B[ld];W[qq]LB[qp:A][pq:B]TR[pg]C[truesaint:
I really really hate it when people pull a 3-3 on me...:)
 point I don't really want to go into memorizing joseki yet. Please advise.

Ted: The obvious answer is at one of the 4-3 points (marked A and B).  In this case, I think playing at R4 is better, since the resulting wall would work better with your group at the top.  Playing at Q3 leaves you with a wall that is facing the wrong way from the upper group.

catch22: Playing at A seems Black's best response. It would be even better, however, if the marked stone was at Q10. As it stands, this stone is too close already to the Black stones at the top, and would be too far from Black's wall at the bottom.]
;B[pq]C[truesaint: The other alternative was blocking at R4. I probably got confused here... Looking back, it seems that R4 is a lot better than Q3.]
;W[qp]
(;B[qr]C[truesaint: should have played R5 first here, i suppose...:(

Ted: Again, don't be afraid to let White get a small life in the corner while you get good thickness on the outside.

catch22: Yes, by only giving a few points of corner territory to White, Black would have created a significant mojo at the right, and his stones would work quite well together.]
;W[rr]
(;B[pr]C[truesaint:

i know that i should have played R5 again at this point, but i was afraid of the cut at Q2. See variant.]
;W[qn];B[qo];W[ro];B[po]C[truesaint: I was feeling very bad during the last several moves because i can't see where i'm going.... This one, although i like the wall, gives white a lot of opening on the side.

catch22: Indeed, Black's stones are not working well together. The strong Black stones at the top right should be used for attacking. They cannot be used to efficiently create territory directly. By letting White into the side a good attack becomes much harder. Furthermore, the stone at M4 is too close to the wall to be efficient.]
;W[qk]
(;B[qi]C[truesaint: I'm wondering if this is the right response on my part. This is basically just trying to block white from expanding to the upper right corner.

Ted: I don't like having to play moves like this myself, but I think this time it's necessary.  Note that all this happened because you played the wrong hane at R2 instead of R5.

catch22: This looks wrong to me, as it is too much territory oriented. Too many stones are used to surround only a little bit of territory. If at all possible, Black should look for a better move. See, for instance, the variation.]
;W[rj];B[ri]C[truesaint: have no other choice, but i really don't like the territory white has now.]
;W[si];B[sh];W[sj];B[rh]C[truesaint: white managed to bite off a big chunk of territory due to my sloppy handling of that one 3-3 move.

At this point, it seems that I'm having psychological problem with 3-3 invasion, so maybe I should take 3-3 first instead of 4-4 on my fuseki? Please advise.

Ted: 4-4 is fine, although I disproportionately see fusekis with one 4-4 stone and one 4-3 stone.  Starting with 3-3 is too small.

catch22: If you play the 4-4, you have to choose your  strategy accordingly. The 4-4 is not good for claiming corner territory (you need two additional moves before it is secure). Your aim should therefore be to use the 4-4 to create influence, build walls, and aim for large scale territories. If on the other hand, your style of play is more territory oriented, the 3-4 move is a good option. It is easier to secure corner territory (but harder to build large scale mojo's). The 3-3 move is too much territory oriented and pretty small indeed. It is playable if you know what you are doing, but probably best avoided. If you are not careful, you will find yourself surrounded and struggling to counter the larger scale plans of your opponent.]
;W[ce]
(;B[hc]C[truesaint: last chance before white solidifies....

Ted: I think you could have played R10 first; White has to respond to avoid losing the three stones.

catch22: You do have to be careful with moves like R10. There is the risk tha  White plays twice elsewhere and gains more. In this case, however, if the three White stones are captured, White will have to respond to defend his remaining stones, because of the weakness at S4 and S6. This makes R10 a better move. Usually, however, using two moves to capture three unimportant stones is small.]
;W[gc];B[hd];W[je];B[kg];W[he]C[truesaint: did not see this coming...]
;B[ge];W[gd];B[ie]C[truesaint: the whole point of this move is to try to save the two stones at H17. But]
;W[hf];B[if];W[ff]C[truesaint: textbook net...

catch22: Strictly speaking, this is not a net, because the Black stone at G15 can escape by ataring the two White stones. This would be a bad way to play, as it's an unimportant stone.]

(;B[gf]C[truesaint: for the life of me i cannot remember why i made this move. Should have just connected at J16, and sacrifice the G15 stone.

catch22: Indeed.];W[hg];B[gg];W[hh];B[gh]C[truesaint: i don't know whether this is good or bad, just playing along, now that i have practically thrown away the H17 group.

catch22: At a moment like this, you have to decide what is more important. Trying to rescue the H17 group anyway, or sacrificing it to gain elsewhere on the board.

In this case, rescueing the H17 stones would still be quite valuable. Even though these are only four stones, they are strategically significant. If you save these stones, White is cut into two at the top half of the board. Most significantly, the group at the right is not guaranteed alive yet. So White will have to be careful not to lose this group, which would be a big loss.

On the other hand, you could decide to sacrifice the H17 group and use it to create influence, helping you to secure territory at the left of the board.

Whatever you decide, stick with it and be consistent in your subsequent moves.]
;W[id];B[ib]C[truesaint: the only move i can see that could save the two stones at H17. The plan was to buy enough time (and possibly threatening atari at J17 if white ignores this) to do a hane at H11.

I think H11 could kill the white group, but the two stones at H17 need more liberty first.]
;W[ic];B[hb]C[truesaint:

4 liberties, should be enough...];W[jb]C[truesaint: ok, three...:)]
;B[hi]C[truesaint : three versus two, capturing race?

The truth is that i completely forgot that the J14 stones ONLY HAVE TWO liberties, somehow i thought that it was safe due to L13...:(]
;W[ih]
(;B[jf];W[ii];B[hj];W[gb];B[ga]C[truesaint: stupid move, trying to buy some time for the H18 group.

catch22: Indeed. It does not work. In fact, White does not even have to respond and so can gain by playing elsewhere. See the upcoming variations.]

(;W[fa];B[ij];W[ha];B[ki];W[ol];B[oj];W[pj];B[pi];W[en];B[fm]
;W[em];B[ek];W[gn];B[gm];W[hn];B[hm];W[kf];B[jg];W[ke];B[lf]
;W[le];B[md];W[lg];B[mf];W[lh];B[kh];W[li];B[lj];W[mj];B[mi]
;W[mh];B[ni];W[nh];B[oh];W[nj];B[oi];W[kj];B[lk];W[mk]C[truesaint: White M13 group is dead. White L10 is also dead.
I was thinking that I can kill this 'open triangle' group at N10.

catch22: Ted, I think it would be useful here to point out the distinction between "capturing stones" and "killing groups". For instance as follows...

Killing groups is bigger. It's about capturing a large group of stones which is nearly alive and often worth quite a bit of points. Capturing stones, on the other hand, is typically less valuable. Capturing two stones may only be worth four points. (Sometimes capturing two stones is more valuable. For example if they are cutting stones, and in capturing these stones you prevent one of your groups from being killed.)

The point I am trying to make is that you should not always try to capture stones when you can, or try to prevent each of your stones from being captured. Only do so when the stones strategically important, or there are no bigger moves on the board. 

In this case, both the L10 stone and the three N10 stones are unimportant, and capturing them is small. It would be better to try something else, e.g. threaten to capture these stones to build territory in the center.]
;B[ml];W[nk];B[ok];W[nl];B[pk];W[pl]
(;B[ll]C[truesaint: hehe... didn't work...:)

What do you think of R8 ?

Ted: I think both of your proposed variations have mistakes in them that you didn't notice.

catch22: Indeed. As you point out, Ted, R8 can be captured in a ladder, so it is not a good move.]
;W[nn]C[truesaint: : too late for R8 now...:)];B[no];W[ir];B[jr]
C[truesaint: stupid move, in retrospect.

The instinct was to defend the territory. But this K2 stones is very weak. Costs me around 5 points...:(

Ted: It's better to play K3 first.

catch22: Even K3 is not too good. It does not help to make territory for Black. It only rescues an unimportant stone. Better to play elsewhere. For instance D14 to prevent White from similar gains here.]
;W[jq];B[ip];W[kr];B[in];W[io];B[jp];W[kq];B[jo];W[ho];B[jm]
;W[mr];B[nq];W[mq];B[mp];W[nr];B[hp];W[gr];B[fn]C[truesaint: this is a 'found luck'. threatens atari.

catch22: Strictly speaking, it is atari and threatens a capture.]
;W[go];B[fo];W[fp]TR[ho][io][hn][gn]C[truesaint: good move by white?

catch22: Difficult to say. It's worth a lot of points to White not to let Black into the bottom left corner. On the other hand, preventing Black from closing off his territory at the left side is also big. 

Therefore, it would have been better for White to ignore Black's earlier atari at F6 and play C7 instead. Capturing White's four marked stones would be quite small for Black (only eight points), whereas White would be able to keep his bottom left corner _and_ prevent Black from getting territory at the left. This would be much bigger.]
;B[eo];W[ep];B[do];W[cp];B[bn];W[bo];B[ao];W[ap];B[an]C[truesaint: somehow the E7 stones are dead...:)

I was quite happy about this since i thought it's a fair trade between black's left side and white's lower left corner.

catch22: Well, it seems that Black got the better deal here. He probably got more than he was entitled to.]
;W[fe];B[fg];W[df];B[cg];W[dg];B[dh];W[bf];B[ch];W[bg];B[bh]
;W[oq];B[np];W[or];B[mn];W[kp];B[ko];W[rb];B[rc];W[sc];B[sd]
;W[sb];B[rd];W[eg];B[eh];W[ji];B[jj];W[ia];B[kc];W[jd];B[kk]
C[truesaint: probably should continue to L18 instead...

catch22: This move did not get Black any points at all. The L10 stone was not getting anywhere and would always be captured. Black L18 would be better, but is only one point in gote. R10 would be even better still. Two points in sente, after which Black could play A13 also in sente, and maybe even go on to win the game.]
;W[kb];B[pn];W[qm];B[nm];W[om];B[on];W[qj];B[pm];W[ql];B[rs]
;W[sr];B[ag];W[af];B[ah];W[be];B[qs];W[lq];B[ss];W[rq];B[op]
;W[os]C[truesaint [25k?\]: this is it, then?
Rainer [22k?\]: looks like it];TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][ga][ja]
[ka][la][ma][na][oa][qa][ra][sa][ab][bb][cb][db][eb][fb][hb]
[ib][nb][ac][bc][cc][dc][ec][fc][hc][ad][bd][cd][ed][hd][ae]
[de][ee][ef][rk][sk][rl][sl][rm][sm][rn][sn][so][bp][rp][sp]
[aq][bq][cq][dq][eq][fq][gq][sq][ar][br][cr][dr][er][fr][hr]
[jr][lr][as][bs][cs][ds][es][fs][gs][hs][is][js][ks][ls][ms]
[ns]TB[od][qd][ne][oe][pe][qe][re][se][nf][of][pf][qf][rf][sf]
[lg][mg][ng][og][qg][rg][sg][fh][lh][mh][nh][ph][qh][ai][bi]
[ci][di][ei][fi][gi][li][aj][bj][cj][dj][ej][fj][gj][kj][ak]
[bk][ck][fk][gk][hk][ik][jk][al][bl][cl][dl][el][fl][gl][hl]
[il][jl][kl][am][bm][cm][dm][em][im][km][lm][mm][dn][en][jn]
[kn][ln][nn][lo][mo][oo]C[End of game, white wins by 4.5 points.

This is not much different from my last GTL-reviewed game, in the sense that i'm still having trouble to secure territory in the corners. Most of the left side territory is plain luck because white is trying to save the four stones at H6.

GTL reviewer, thank you for taking the time to review my game.]
)
(;B[ql]
(;W[qm];B[rl];W[sl];B[qj];W[sk]
(;B[rk]C[catch22: T7 instead would capture six White stones. Because of the ladder in the other variation though, it should never come this far.]
;W[sm];B[rm];W[sn];B[rn]TR[rk][ql][rl][rm]C[Ted: You've just put five black stones in atari.

catch22: :-)];W[so];B[pm];W[pn];B[on]C[truesaint: well, this is the 'wishful thinking' version...:)]
)
(;B[sm]C[catch22: Atari, and White cannot connect.]))
(;W[rl];B[qm]
(;W[rm]C[Ted: The ladder goes the other way.

catch22: Indeed.];B[pm];W[pn];B[om];W[nm];B[on];W[nn];B[oo]
C[truesaint: still looks good for black, but this is after the game. During the game, i felt that R8 is 'interesting', but i cannot read this far...:(]
)
(;W[pm];B[rm];W[sm]))))
(;W[ip]C[catch22: White does not have to respond, and can play elsewhere. Black does not have any good follow-up move. See the two possible continuations.

So, don't always expect your opponent to mindlessly reply. Strong players especially will always check if there is a real need and/or if there is not a bigger move elsewhere.]

(;B[fb]C[This is no good for Black...];W[ia]C[White still captures the four stones. If Black connects, he loses six stones.]
)
(;B[fa]C[This does not work either...];W[ha]C[White can throw-in a stone, and there is nothing that Black can do.]
;B[ia];W[ja];B[ha];W[ea];B[fb];W[eb];B[fc];W[ec])))
(;B[ii];W[jh];B[ji];W[jf]C[truesaint: black lost everything....]
))
(;B[id];W[ig];B[jf]C[truesaint: i dont' like the big white upper left corner, but at least none of my groups are dead...:)]
))
(;B[qj];W[rk];B[pk];W[pl];B[ok];W[ol];B[nk]C[Ted: Here you've got a nice bit of territory in the top right.]
))
(;B[rp]C[catch22: White still has a weakness at the bottom right which Black can exploit.]

(;W[rq]C[catch22: The "obvious" response for White...];B[rn]
;W[sp];B[qm];W[pn];B[on];W[pm];B[pl]C[The ladder does not work at the moment, so before playing this way Black could make some preparations first. For instance, if Black had first played a stone at H16 or thereabouts, the ladder would work.

On the other hand, Black can even play this way right now...]
;W[om];B[ol];W[nm];B[ql];W[rm];B[rl];W[sn]C[catch22: Now suddenly Black stone's work quite well together. The territory at the top looks quite big. Also, because the Black stone at M4 is close to the wall, Black does not need to worry about these six stones (which have obviously been weakened by letting White break through).

Therefore, White should probably have responded with S6 instead of S3 in response to Black's initial cut at S4. See the other variation.]
)
(;W[rn]C[catch22: A better response for White.];B[rq]C[catch22: Black has gained in the corner, whereas White still needs another move for his group at the right. Black can then, however, still harass this group to build center influence.]
)))
(;B[qo];W[pr];B[rp];W[qs];B[rq];W[qr];B[or]C[truesaint: looks good for black, but i'm not sure white has the right response. Please take your time to elaborate on this.

catch22: Because Black has many cutting points,  White's stones can still be saved (starting with either a cut at S5 or P3).

Still, instead of capturing with R1, White should probably have played at S3. This way, White could have made live for his group, without given Black quite the same amount of outside strength.]
))
(;B[qo];W[pr];B[or];W[qr]C[truesaint: Looks much better for black. The question is, of course, why i made the other move instead  ? :D]
))
(;B[rb];W[qa]C[Ted: White should give up the R18 stone and connect by playing M18 instead.]
;B[ra];W[oa];B[lb]C[truesaint:

Will black be able to kill off white ?]))
(;W[qc]C[catch22: This is an alternative, more common, way of playing for White. Black often plays the pincer to induce this move.]
;B[qd];W[pc];B[od];W[nb];B[me]C[White gets a little corner territory, but gives Black a wall...]
;W[qj]C[But because White still has sente to play R10 the value of Black's wall is somewhat questionable.]
))
(;W[dn]C[catch22: A good move for White.];B[cm]C[The move Black should not make...]
;W[ci]C[... because the Black stones are now adrift and White is building a nice position at both ends.]
))
